Leader Voting

Discussion in 'News from the Admin' started by Jigsaw, Apr 6, 2013.

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  1. roverttt

    roverttt Well-Known Member

    I often vote no on peaceful applications due to the fact that this server is a PvP server, and it should keep the consistent element of PvP. I completely understand that players should be allowed to be peaceful, I just don't believe there should be as many peaceful factions as PvP factions. Personally I don't really understand why a player would come to a server that is listed on most sites as a "PvP/raiding server".

    Although I don't understand this, I do understand that some come to the server from recommendations from friends, and some of those people do not wish to PvP, this is perfectly fine to me, so long as they don't try to lure PvP players into peaceful factions. Peaceful, factions have been tempting pvpers to join their factions since I joined the server a year ago, and it still happens today. The amount of peaceful players on the server was higher than PvP players until chaos came, and that, in my opinion, is not how the server should be.

    The main reason I dislike peaceful players on the server is due to the fact that they often find ways to benefit themselves, in a way that ruins PvP for PvP factions. The greatest example I have seen so far as I have played here is when war zones were added to the server due to players in peaceful factions complaining that they could not PvP. This makes absolutely no sense to me, since the sole reason people are supposed to join peaceful factions is for protection from PvP, so why would they need to PvP themselves? Also, for all of you who constantly thought "omg unarmed is so op", it really wasn't before war zones came. The truly OP function of unarmed is mobbing, which always takes place in war zones due to the ability to die as a group without losing f power. Mobbing grew to a huge level when war zones, and nuke town came into play, due to the easy strategy of a bunch of peaceful members running into a warzone and mobbing those in diamond armor, eventually killing the person. Before mobbing started, many players would bring armor to PvP, and few would come without armor, for they feared losing f power, and being raided by a stronger faction.

    As you can all see from what I have said above, peaceful have prett6 ,much completely ruined armored PvP for players now, and often the only time anyone brings armor to nuke town, is if they have a death wish, or they come with a large group of people, because they want some target practice on unarmed people running at them, life after life.

    Often staff say that old PvP, what players call the good old days on mutiny, cannot be restored. The way I see it, is that it can easily be restored by taking away war zones. In fact, since jigs has been wanting to bring back BG, players would almost certainly start raiding again, with the mass loss of f power coming from unarmed noons who come to non war zones and die.

    So, in case all you peaceful leaders were wondering why I voted no on your application, well, let's just say peaceful haven't been the best to PvP factions either...
    FirefuryXavor likes this.
  2. Aceposiedon

    Aceposiedon Well-Known Member

    That is an awful reason ^^
  3. Zombiekittey

    Zombiekittey Zomberator Supporter Retired

    roverttt If this was a PvP server there would be no peaceful.
    cmoose154 and Rainbowc0l0rs like this.
  4. Rainbowc0l0rs

    Rainbowc0l0rs Supporter

    Everytime I read one of your posts like this my brain hurts.
    thetruth6041, FirefuryXavor and K00SH like this.
  5. 0SV4LD0

    0SV4LD0 Active Member

    Too bad that Mutiny pretty much has 5 active pvp factions, which is about equal to the amount of peaceful factions. Do not cite numbers that mean absolutely nothing unless you plan to delve into further specifics so as to not discredit your and the opposing side in the argument.
  6. Mazouri

    Mazouri Supporter

    This is going to be long, mostly due to Rovertt’s rambling in the quotes.
    This is a server for everyone who wishes to join, whether they prefer to participate in a PvP or Peaceful faction. This server prides itself in a dual environment, which includes providing access to all players. As Zombiekittey, mentioned, if this was a PvP only server, peaceful factions would not be allowed.
    You make peaceful factions sound like this underground thing that people should not participate in. If you do not like peaceful factions then you should probably find another server that shares your view.
    Thank you providing your input on Peaceful factions, but this is not what you are supposed to be basing your vote on. Please refer to the two questions referred to Jigsaw’s original post.
    Also, you are contradicting yourself. A player may choose to be PvP or be peaceful, and is completely free to switch between the two if they wish to. There are warzones where everyone is PvP (even for Peaceful players), and there are zoned areas where there is no PvP allowed (even for PvP players).
    I really don’t understand how Peaceful factions have ruined PvP factions; I also do not understand how any of this relates back to whether a person should be a leader or not. I think you need to do some serious thinking before you vote on a leadership application, because right now you are bullying peaceful players, not giving them an actual chance.
    Zombiekittey and Rainbowc0l0rs like this.
  7. camedice98

    camedice98 Active Member

    Ok... Enough arguing... Seriously, this is beyond immature... I believe everyone is allowed the chance of leader just like i have, whether they make a tiny peaceful faction or a supreme PvP faction. It does not matter. What matters is to have fun and not put each other down. :)

    And PvP lovers, im sorry but even if there was one Peaceful, those who want to be in peaceful will join it... It does not matter how many peacefuls there are... Ive only been in a peaceful faction the last few days before i went inactive. Ive been in PvP factions my entire career here and i have never felt such hatred towards peaceful factions... Calm down... :seriously:

    Btw, Jigsaw, maybe sticky this post on the leader request section? ;)
  8. Rainbowc0l0rs

    Rainbowc0l0rs Supporter

    Well I don't think anyones really arguing...yet.
  9. roverttt

    roverttt Well-Known Member

    Well then, time to reply to your countering thoughts of my post.

    I'll start with zombie,
    This is a survival PvP server as maz has shown with that quote above, peaceful were added to please members of the server, but the server has always been a PvP server.

    Now for mazouri,
    I first want to say, I don't wish to disrespect you in anyway, I simply have a contradicting opinion.
    When you replied to the first quote of my speech you replied no, please go into more detail.

    As ford your second quote, this is a PvP server, but it is not a PvP only server, and I have already stated that I perfectly understand that some players don't like PvP and play on the server, this is why I ask you please go into more detail then "no". Also, I do not refer to peaceful as "underground", I am simply stating why I dislike them personally, and if you don't think that peacefuls have ruined PvP, then that's your opinion, and I'm fine with that.

    Now, third quote, you split up my speech to make it look off topic, my true intent for those words was to explain why I dislike peaceful, which later led to why I vote no, which is to prevtn more peaceful leaders from tempting new members to be peaceful, even if they like to PvP.

    As for your fourth quote, I think that bullying is a very strong word to use, as I am commenting on leader apps as to why I vote no. I said in my post that I try to keep it simple often to prevent from leader apps being crushed by a long comment of reasons as to why I voted no. Normally, when I do make long post of reasons on a leader app, I either try to keep them as simple, why I voted no, or short to prevent any excess no votes from coming. at times I will show my full thought, often after someone comes and privately starts throwing out insults at me in game because I voted no, and in just don't think someone who does that over a vote should get leader.

    I do ask that you respect my opinion, as I respect yours, and if anyone else wishes to reply to part of my speech, I ask that you please try to stay on the topic of my whole speech if possible. Whoever is willing to read my long posts thank you, for hearing me.
  10. Gmlouis

    Gmlouis Supporter

    I wouldnt say we are in a pvp intensive server,the only real place we pvp in are warzones.peaceful can still fight in warzones.
  11. Rainbowc0l0rs

    Rainbowc0l0rs Supporter

    and bg.
  12. 0SV4LD0

    0SV4LD0 Active Member

    I do not advocate the use of insults or immature and unhelpful comments on leader apps. But people should still be able to express their opinions via that board and vote as such. The community only votes once, and this should give the incentive to people to get their names out more.

    Irrelevant in every sense of the word.
    Guess who was called out on it? That same guy. He was not just dismissed, people called him out on it. If you want to call for regulations, then it at best it should be something that punishes unreasoned or badly reasoned voting such as that. Even then I can see that being hard to enforce since not everyone comments their thoughts, and anything worded bad enough will fall through the cracks.
  13. Mazouri

    Mazouri Supporter

    To be clear Rovertt, I respect your opinion; however, you still don't get it. You are not voting according to the criteria you should be voting on; you did a great job listing off why you hate peaceful factions; but that should have nothing to do with some faction's plan. In your original post, you used the peaceful status as a way make assumptions about how someone is going to lead their faction. You cannot be prejudiced against someone for this sole reason only. I am not going to regurgitate what I just said in my last post. The two points you should be evaluating each leadership application on is:
    End of story. Forget your hatred of peaceful factions, re-evaluate the way you vote on Leadership applications, not based on faction type, but on intent to create a faction, and maturity and capability of that person to lead a faction.
    Rainbowc0l0rs and Zombiekittey like this.
  14. camedice98

    camedice98 Active Member

    The voting is not based on popularity... Its based on this:
    Umm... No? Ive seen far too many leader apps denied just because the person mentioned making peaceful factions in their app instead of making a PvP faction. You have a right to dislike peaceful factions just stop expressing it here... And im saying this to everyone...
  15. 0SV4LD0

    0SV4LD0 Active Member

    What in the world is the point of even having a leader application where people use their own judgement to vote if we have to be dumbed down to two requirements? That makes no sense. In itself, this pretty much is a change to how the leader forum works that Jigsaw was planning to make in the case that nothing changed. If we must keep two constant requirements not made by ourselves, then there is no point in even having a voting system. The current system runs on public relations and demand, and the majority of leaders (from my observation, I can be wrong) have been people intending to lead a peaceful faction. AxelMotley was one of them, but her plan for her faction was astounding and well thought out, it inspired people to vote yes because she had so much going for her faction in the way of plans from the get go. An example along the same lines is CrazyKitteh, who was going to make a PVP faction. He was turned down hard on multiple occasions because the community feels he can not be trusted with a faction, his past actions were severe enough to justify a lack of trust from the people of the community. CK now is starting to get more intricate with his faction plans, displays more thought, and is possibly as determined to get it as ever. I will now cite my latest leader application. I was hounded on 2 grounds, I have 2 bans under my belt and Creeper has a history of having leaders switched quite a bit. I will grant I was not hounded much, but these were legitimate questions that called into account if I could handle running my faction again. I answered maturely and clearly. The point I am trying to make is, these questions that are being outed for being excessive and rude actually do serve a purpose, in fact they tie into the second requirement. Will people be jackasses? When in the world is there not a few jackasses in any one spot? If the people do not want it, let the supply change. Let people become more creative and think out at least a basic plan, much like the people who have gotten leader recently. If it's demanded, it is in the best interest of the applicant to do it.

    There ideally should be the place to express it. Players go in, evaluate the leader to their ideal requirements and vote based on what they think the server needs and can benefit, or benefit them and their friends. I know people vote based on other less justified reasons such as petty hate of the applicant, but there are always exceptions. If enough people do not want another peaceful faction, then so be it.

    I may or may not have a few errors in wording or have omitted info on accident. Any changes will be bolded to show any readers what is not originally in this post.
  16. Jigsaw

    Jigsaw Staff Member Administrator Founder Developer

    When I wrote this post I didn't even think about Peaceful VS PVP factions. Lets not turn this into another bashing thread where we blame each type of faction for everything else.

    This is the exact mindset that has led to the problems on the Leader applications. Thinking that this is your only chance to express what you really feel about a player is not what the intention of a Leader application is. You are not voting whether you like this person personally or whether you think their choice of faction style is to fit your needs. If you feel that you want to vote no just because you don't like them or they are intending on creating a peaceful faction then just don't vote.
    People lost sight of what a Leader application was for. They started to let their ideals decide their vote. There is a need to have a clear statement made to the players so they know what I intended when I created the Leader application process. So, yes, it is necessary to state two simple requirements that should be considered when voting for Leader.
  17. Vol2112

    Vol2112 Retired

    Somehow you managed to take a Leader Application discussion and turned it into something about PvPing... Ill respond though.

    If a player has the ability to lead a faction, regardless of its PvP status, they should have the right to become a Leader.

    Yes, this server advertises PvP but that is only ONE aspect of it. By your logic, we should get rid of the economy, build rights, server events that are not PvP, etc... Mutiny offers a little of everything so saying it is strictly for PvP is wrong.

    Edit: Also, if you are losing members to other factions, that is your problem for not doing a better job to keep them around.
    Now... back on topic.
  18. Mazouri

    Mazouri Supporter

    I hate repeating myself; the intent to create a certain faction type (whether it be PvP or peaceful) is not a criteria to be evaluating someone's leadership application on. People should not be given a no vote if the main reason they have is because of the faction type. MutinyCraft facilitates and welcomes all players, don't hold back a great player just because of the type of faction they wish to make. Follow the criteria to vote, not your own made up criteria that makes absolutely no sense.
  19. Axelmotley

    Axelmotley Well-Known Member

    Why not just erase the whole pvp and peaceful faction thing? Just have factions O.O? If they want to name themselves peaceful or pvp it's up to them (or assasins, or merchants, or events factions, or crazy cat lady factions ((yessss my precioussesseseses)). If I could have it my way my faction would be a hybrid of both types of faction under one faction name/place. Anywho here's what I think should happen:

    Since a lot of people have been rude on applications, I suggest you set up ground rules for the people voting starting with rules:
    1. Respect. Be respectful on every application.
    2. Do not vote under these two reasons (to be changed):
    -Faction Type
    -You dislike the player in-game
    *Exception being maturity (see Jigs post)
    3.Vote without bias.
    4. If you do vote no, have a reason.
    -If you vote no, you MUST state why, if you just vote and walk away your vote will not be counted.
    -If you leave a no comment state why, but for being so awesome and putting their heads out there leave a nice comment too.

    Another thing you could do is assign SA's or Mods to evaluate whether or not an application is worthy and if the app gets no-bombed you can always have a staff override.

    ** I really want a crazy cat lady faction to pop up.. >.>

    ~FIN(maybe adding more later)
    AraduRIS likes this.
  20. Mazouri

    Mazouri Supporter

    I like your suggestions, although I wish it didn't have to come to an entire revamp of the leadership system.
    Axelmotley likes this.
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